1 00:00:18,060 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:18,070 --> 00:00:23,230 Oh 3 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:26,060 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 4 00:00:31,269 --> 00:00:28,050 for the eighth of March 2015 Richard 5 00:00:34,130 --> 00:00:31,279 Saunders here this is episode number 333 6 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:34,140 that's halfway to the Devils house may 7 00:00:38,299 --> 00:00:36,690 not hello may not how are you it's great 8 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:38,309 to be here I'm just here having a drink 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:40,500 waiting for Erich von Daniken to come on 10 00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:42,210 the telly and next time you coming over 11 00:00:44,869 --> 00:00:43,680 filming me don't try to do that while 12 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:44,879 I'm watching my favorite aliens 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:47,520 documentary yes of those people who are 14 00:00:52,189 --> 00:00:49,770 the little clip we put up on the skeptic 15 00:00:54,350 --> 00:00:52,199 zones Facebook side it's a little clip 16 00:00:57,050 --> 00:00:54,360 of Maynard and I watching ancient aliens 17 00:00:58,340 --> 00:00:57,060 or some such show yeah he interrupted me 18 00:01:00,950 --> 00:00:58,350 I was getting very scared I was hiding 19 00:01:02,569 --> 00:01:00,960 behind a big thick medical book the 20 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:02,579 things you see on the skeptic zones and 21 00:01:05,749 --> 00:01:04,320 the thing you hear the things you hear 22 00:01:08,570 --> 00:01:05,759 on the skipper zone coming up this week 23 00:01:12,290 --> 00:01:08,580 we have an interview with a guy from 24 00:01:13,820 --> 00:01:12,300 Moscow Kiril Alvaro from the Moscow 25 00:01:16,969 --> 00:01:13,830 skeptics he's going to be talking about 26 00:01:19,010 --> 00:01:16,979 a test he did his group did on Barnum 27 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:19,020 statements and testing psychics and 28 00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:21,390 paranormal things in general have you 29 00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:24,360 ever been to Russia Moscow may not know 30 00:01:28,580 --> 00:01:26,310 I'm not allowed there for reasons 31 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:28,590 basically due to the cold war I used to 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:31,170 I was a u2 pilot we could go into all 33 00:01:34,730 --> 00:01:32,490 that stuff but I won't really it's 34 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:34,740 basically like flying a large glider 35 00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:36,330 with an engine that's all you need to 36 00:01:40,130 --> 00:01:38,550 know about fly me you too and I even 37 00:01:42,020 --> 00:01:40,140 land it with my eyes shut I sure they 38 00:01:43,790 --> 00:01:42,030 have guys driving cars either side of it 39 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:43,800 like I can land of you too with my eyes 40 00:01:48,590 --> 00:01:46,740 shut I believe you may not and thousands 41 00:01:50,029 --> 00:01:48,600 wouldn't but I believe you after that 42 00:01:52,609 --> 00:01:50,039 it's a week in science from the Royal 43 00:01:55,309 --> 00:01:52,619 Institution of Australia and then we 44 00:01:57,230 --> 00:01:55,319 head to skeptics in the pub to test they 45 00:02:00,589 --> 00:01:57,240 informally and with a lot of fun the 46 00:02:02,540 --> 00:02:00,599 premium wine card ah yes that's right 47 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:02,550 just how many drinks does it take for a 48 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:04,410 skeptic to go from a premium to a 49 00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:08,310 standard that's right it took a few as 50 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:09,780 it turns out but you'll hear all about 51 00:02:14,420 --> 00:02:13,410 that a bit later on in the show and we 52 00:02:15,530 --> 00:02:14,430 just happen to be wet we just haven't 53 00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:15,540 watching television and the word 54 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:17,670 drunkenness just came up on the screen 55 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:20,130 with some photos it did it did I look 56 00:02:24,830 --> 00:02:22,650 it's amazing that's just crazy yes 57 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:24,840 indeed and what else we got we've got a 58 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:26,310 week in science from those two heavy 59 00:02:30,309 --> 00:02:29,090 drinkers in South Australia that's right 60 00:02:32,559 --> 00:02:30,319 that's about it for this week so we've 61 00:02:35,650 --> 00:02:32,569 got those three segments coming up and 62 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:35,660 what may not it's nice to come back to 63 00:02:38,710 --> 00:02:37,220 your place every now and then and gaze 64 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:38,720 upon your wall because there's a picture 65 00:02:44,770 --> 00:02:42,110 up there of you on the the set of the 66 00:02:46,570 --> 00:02:44,780 enterprise as Captain Kirk or captain me 67 00:02:48,759 --> 00:02:46,580 neither I'm sitting in the captain's 68 00:02:50,410 --> 00:02:48,769 chair but the main reason which it likes 69 00:02:52,809 --> 00:02:50,420 coming is because he likes looking at my 70 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:52,819 Bananarama poster isn't that how it is 71 00:02:57,490 --> 00:02:55,489 may noted and then of course well we're 72 00:02:58,750 --> 00:02:57,500 just saying on the show last week we 73 00:03:00,759 --> 00:02:58,760 were mentioning the fact that linen 74 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:00,769 Nimoy passed away so it's good to come 75 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:02,329 here and see a little bit of star trek 76 00:03:05,650 --> 00:03:04,010 around the place as well whenever people 77 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:05,660 come to my place main are they say 78 00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:07,489 Maynard you're just a little bit of 79 00:03:13,390 --> 00:03:11,360 Shatner but he do thank you well we 80 00:03:15,009 --> 00:03:13,400 better get on with the show Maynard so 81 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:15,019 while everybody's enjoying the show what 82 00:03:20,130 --> 00:03:16,940 should we run away and eat you should 83 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:20,140 donate some halloumi that's pronounced 84 00:03:26,470 --> 00:03:23,209 halloumi well I may not and I run away 85 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:26,480 and eat some how do me I hello we hope 86 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:53,930 and now my friends I'm very happy to be 87 00:03:59,900 --> 00:03:57,330 on the line all the way to Moscow in 88 00:04:01,910 --> 00:03:59,910 Russia with somebody you know so well 89 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:01,920 because you hear the air little 90 00:04:09,290 --> 00:04:04,170 promotion on the skeptic zone it's kill 91 00:04:11,690 --> 00:04:09,300 Alvaro from Russia hello hey what's up 92 00:04:14,090 --> 00:04:11,700 Richard hey you know what it was really 93 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:14,100 great to meet you last year the amazing 94 00:04:19,910 --> 00:04:18,090 meeting oh yeah absolutely absolutely I 95 00:04:22,460 --> 00:04:19,920 was also very happy to meet everybody 96 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:22,470 and makes you and I remember you and I 97 00:04:27,460 --> 00:04:23,730 were actually sitting at one of the 98 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:27,470 tables doing stuff doing our blogs if so 99 00:04:33,650 --> 00:04:30,930 it was very uniting like here are the 100 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:33,660 actual skeptical activists come to town 101 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:36,030 and then they're sitting at and you know 102 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:39,030 working on their blogs it was wow i 103 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:41,130 think i think you're right i think i was 104 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:43,170 trying to update something probably on 105 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:44,850 the skeptic zone and you were working on 106 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:46,770 something side by side on our laptops 107 00:04:51,770 --> 00:04:49,470 and you're absolutely right it was and 108 00:04:53,510 --> 00:04:51,780 it goes to demonstrate that this is what 109 00:04:55,850 --> 00:04:53,520 we actually do even if we're at a 110 00:04:58,850 --> 00:04:55,860 convention we have to stop and keep 111 00:05:01,040 --> 00:04:58,860 doing this sort of thing yeah yeah 112 00:05:03,170 --> 00:05:01,050 exactly actually I thought I think we 113 00:05:05,930 --> 00:05:03,180 spoke like a year ago I think about 114 00:05:09,370 --> 00:05:05,940 daytime yeah how does my voice sound 115 00:05:11,990 --> 00:05:09,380 I've actually I had a cold last week and 116 00:05:14,630 --> 00:05:12,000 when you have a cold usually your voice 117 00:05:17,450 --> 00:05:14,640 becomes lower and in general my voice 118 00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:17,460 becomes deeper with time and it has got 119 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:19,020 something to do with my skeptical 120 00:05:25,730 --> 00:05:23,100 activism so I'll explain so here's what 121 00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:25,740 happens you know you have you know that 122 00:05:30,490 --> 00:05:27,900 each country has their own like 123 00:05:33,230 --> 00:05:30,500 pseudo-scientific channels yeah that air 124 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:33,240 pseudo-scientific documentaries okay and 125 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:35,250 the nerve the narrator of those 126 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:37,050 documentaries will very often have a 127 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:39,330 very deep voice and they will say 128 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:42,090 something like and then mr. Smith saw 129 00:05:46,370 --> 00:05:44,400 some lights he'll sure that this is 130 00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:46,380 actually a saucer 131 00:05:49,430 --> 00:05:48,390 he didn't have oh no no and that they 132 00:05:51,410 --> 00:05:49,440 would say something like this like and 133 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:51,420 then he made it he made a very good 134 00:05:58,330 --> 00:05:53,400 video but then he got into a bar fight 135 00:06:00,950 --> 00:05:58,340 and they broke his camera so and so 136 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:00,960 because you're you're you're often 137 00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:03,930 trying to go into that voice you become 138 00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:05,880 better at it and better and better and 139 00:06:11,780 --> 00:06:07,860 then you find yourself talking like the 140 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:11,790 I know commander Worf so I think well 141 00:06:16,850 --> 00:06:14,730 Carol I think it's suiting you very well 142 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:16,860 at the moment I'm I can see a new career 143 00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:19,650 for you doing voice-overs for for 144 00:06:25,270 --> 00:06:22,590 documentaries but it was it is good to 145 00:06:28,310 --> 00:06:25,280 catch up with you too because I know I'm 146 00:06:30,470 --> 00:06:28,320 you're very active of course in in 147 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:30,480 Russia and The Skeptical movement what 148 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:32,370 what's new in The Skeptical movement in 149 00:06:40,130 --> 00:06:36,660 motion right so this is a very good 150 00:06:41,630 --> 00:06:40,140 question and there are like okay so like 151 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:41,640 there are good news and there are bad 152 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:44,760 news the good news is that we did a lot 153 00:06:50,750 --> 00:06:48,030 of things we ran the first skeptic 154 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:50,760 conference in Russia and it was crazy 155 00:06:56,870 --> 00:06:53,190 and it went much better than I thought 156 00:07:00,100 --> 00:06:56,880 it would so that's good to you yes and 157 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:00,110 when he when you organize things like 158 00:07:05,390 --> 00:07:03,090 technology is important like will will 159 00:07:06,770 --> 00:07:05,400 the sound be recorded well and we 160 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:06,780 actually had people come over from 161 00:07:10,940 --> 00:07:08,670 another city there was a guy with 162 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:10,950 cameras who recorded it from several 163 00:07:15,020 --> 00:07:12,900 vanished poems and I had all my 164 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:15,030 equipment sound equipment brought in and 165 00:07:21,050 --> 00:07:17,460 there was not a single technical problem 166 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:21,060 which was fascinating Wow yeah so you 167 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:22,710 know I did I did do like musical 168 00:07:26,540 --> 00:07:24,930 performances before in my life so I sort 169 00:07:28,190 --> 00:07:26,550 of knew like you have to bring all the 170 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:28,200 cables and all that stuff so I had 171 00:07:32,570 --> 00:07:29,730 everything with me and it worked fine 172 00:07:34,340 --> 00:07:32,580 and more people showed up than we 173 00:07:36,350 --> 00:07:34,350 expected there were like about 250 174 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:36,360 people you really thought it would be 175 00:07:41,150 --> 00:07:38,370 good if 70 people come that was like 176 00:07:42,740 --> 00:07:41,160 twenty fifth 250 people although many of 177 00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:42,750 them did not know what skeptics society 178 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:44,640 is they didn't know did not know me but 179 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:47,850 right every now and then so we were 180 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:49,410 selling merchandise there will they 181 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:51,570 printed some merchandise like bags that 182 00:07:56,659 --> 00:07:53,790 said this bag is like full of skepticism 183 00:07:59,850 --> 00:07:56,669 and stuff like that and it was very 184 00:08:01,980 --> 00:07:59,860 rewarding too I think last week see some 185 00:08:04,409 --> 00:08:01,990 one on a lecture dedicated to science 186 00:08:08,459 --> 00:08:04,419 you know like popular science lecture 187 00:08:13,499 --> 00:08:08,469 see somebody with the bag like wow these 188 00:08:15,209 --> 00:08:13,509 people actually exist so and also I 189 00:08:18,179 --> 00:08:15,219 spent a lot of my private money 190 00:08:20,429 --> 00:08:18,189 obviously for this and we were able to 191 00:08:23,610 --> 00:08:20,439 get back more than half of it which was 192 00:08:25,589 --> 00:08:23,620 also very very touching that people 193 00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:25,599 actually donated a lot in general 194 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:28,030 because oh yeah hey well it sounds to me 195 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:29,650 like there's a real interest in that 196 00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:33,130 part of the world yeah so now the bad 197 00:08:40,769 --> 00:08:39,070 thing it's it's sort of so I made a you 198 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:40,779 know like sort of a video for everybody 199 00:08:44,699 --> 00:08:42,310 that you know what we have to make 200 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:44,709 moreover own original material and this 201 00:08:49,710 --> 00:08:46,810 is something that is developing very 202 00:08:53,250 --> 00:08:49,720 very slowly so people are in general 203 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:53,260 very ready to translate material the 204 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:54,970 Western material you know documentaries 205 00:08:59,880 --> 00:08:58,450 and stuff yeah very people actually do 206 00:09:01,250 --> 00:08:59,890 something on their own which are 207 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:01,260 considered to be a problem because 208 00:09:07,259 --> 00:09:03,880 whenever you're translating someone's 209 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:07,269 material you are not an investigator and 210 00:09:10,889 --> 00:09:09,250 whenever you're trying to when you try 211 00:09:12,870 --> 00:09:10,899 to investigate something yourself you 212 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:12,880 yourself become a better skeptic a 213 00:09:18,030 --> 00:09:16,480 better activist a better scientist if 214 00:09:19,530 --> 00:09:18,040 you learn things that you will not learn 215 00:09:22,319 --> 00:09:19,540 when you're just translating stuff and 216 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:22,329 so I know from my own experience that 217 00:09:28,949 --> 00:09:25,570 making making your own investigations 218 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:28,959 it's simply it's insanely important you 219 00:09:34,530 --> 00:09:31,990 just become a better investigator oo it 220 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:34,540 yeah and so before you know before we 221 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:36,250 get to the experiments that we're going 222 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:38,560 to talk about yeah I want just to say 223 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:41,050 that we have and I'm hoping maybe I'll 224 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:45,370 be able to to chime in in a workshop or 225 00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:47,529 something at tam this year and tell 226 00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:50,230 about the gulag eena meena clogging of 227 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:53,860 the telekinesis woman that was prominent 228 00:09:57,990 --> 00:09:55,810 in the Soviet era and that many people 229 00:10:00,420 --> 00:09:58,000 around the world no doubt oh yeah very 230 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:00,430 favorite yes yes yes and we believe that 231 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:02,890 we nailed her we believe that we found 232 00:10:09,569 --> 00:10:05,890 some first of all there was a very 233 00:10:11,610 --> 00:10:09,579 realistic method suggested and we found 234 00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:11,620 some evidence that this is the way she 235 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:13,360 was doing this exactly 236 00:10:18,030 --> 00:10:16,209 and we also put up a questionnaire that 237 00:10:19,740 --> 00:10:18,040 answers each and every one of the 238 00:10:23,910 --> 00:10:19,750 arguments that were put forward and 239 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:23,920 among the you know small but active 240 00:10:29,009 --> 00:10:26,170 skeptical circles it is considered that 241 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:29,019 we the skeptics society have actually 242 00:10:34,019 --> 00:10:31,540 closed the the you know the topic of 243 00:10:36,090 --> 00:10:34,029 nina kulagina and many of the things can 244 00:10:38,759 --> 00:10:36,100 now be put to rest because simply this 245 00:10:41,579 --> 00:10:38,769 is the best theory that we have right 246 00:10:43,769 --> 00:10:41,589 now how she did it exactly so but you 247 00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:43,779 know that's for later well I'm sure 248 00:10:49,319 --> 00:10:46,920 James Randi will be very interested in 249 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:49,329 talking to you about that but just 250 00:10:53,420 --> 00:10:51,130 getting back to experiments you know 251 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:53,430 this is something very important is and 252 00:10:58,319 --> 00:10:55,570 skeptics our listeners after this 253 00:11:00,509 --> 00:10:58,329 interview will be hearing about an 254 00:11:03,150 --> 00:11:00,519 informal experiment we did in Sydney it 255 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:03,160 skeptics in the pub with the the premium 256 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:06,180 wine card but putting together 257 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:08,890 experiments testing psychics is a very 258 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:11,410 important aspect of what skepticism was 259 00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:14,350 all about but I understand that you've 260 00:11:20,819 --> 00:11:16,120 you've had some interesting experiences 261 00:11:23,189 --> 00:11:20,829 doing that yourself yeah so let me start 262 00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:23,199 off with the Barnum effect let me try to 263 00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:28,000 reproduce like what two weeks ago so we 264 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:30,790 tried to do the classical test when able 265 00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:33,730 to take some sort of a psychological 266 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:36,459 analysis and I think I took one from you 267 00:11:41,069 --> 00:11:38,680 I think you lent me the text you are 268 00:11:43,319 --> 00:11:41,079 using typically for this I did I did I 269 00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:43,329 remember that well but and you'll be 270 00:11:50,370 --> 00:11:47,320 interested to know that I years ago now 271 00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:50,380 I asked Randy James Randi and he sent me 272 00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:52,660 that I tweaked it a little bit for 273 00:11:58,860 --> 00:11:56,320 Australia and now now you're using a 274 00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:58,870 version of it yes and we Alec we also 275 00:12:02,579 --> 00:12:01,120 tweaked it I tweaked it to sound less 276 00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:02,589 like astrology and more like 277 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:04,390 psychological analysis so that's more 278 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:06,670 believable because the people that we 279 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:09,130 would go to and the people that would 280 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:11,230 definitely be in the space that we have 281 00:12:16,050 --> 00:12:13,990 skeptic meanings that would probably not 282 00:12:18,180 --> 00:12:16,060 be into astrology most people would not 283 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:18,190 be there I just knew that this is the 284 00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:20,290 type of public there so it we said that 285 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:21,880 we're going to run a psychological 286 00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:23,410 experiment and then we didn't give in 287 00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:26,079 details and so we had two groups of 288 00:12:30,930 --> 00:12:27,190 people unfortunately 289 00:12:33,690 --> 00:12:30,940 there wasn't a lot of them so and I 290 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:33,700 actually went for you know like for the 291 00:12:40,650 --> 00:12:35,230 type of the experiment that Derren Brown 292 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:40,660 has in his trick of the mind yeah I 293 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:42,610 think it was something that yeah so he 294 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:44,530 has like several groups of people like 295 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:46,300 five and six people and it worked fine 296 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:48,820 so I decided that it's probably easier 297 00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:51,010 to go for that one and so the first 298 00:12:57,510 --> 00:12:53,470 group of people was like five people and 299 00:13:00,030 --> 00:12:57,520 we got we you know we gave them the 300 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:00,040 envelopes they would have to do like 301 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:04,330 they had to take a pencil and draw their 302 00:13:09,060 --> 00:13:06,370 hand well you know draw the silhouette 303 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:09,070 of their hand the shape of their hand on 304 00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:10,930 the paper then they have to write down 305 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:13,420 their birth date if they knew the time 306 00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:16,090 of their birth that would help and yes 307 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,520 and I guess that's it some like that and 308 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,320 then we said that we're going to give 309 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:22,480 the psychological analysis and then they 310 00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:25,690 waited for like 30 minutes and we put in 311 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:28,660 actually hand written text and this was 312 00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:30,430 important because I thought that this 313 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:32,230 would be realistic we have no printer 314 00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:35,140 here so we have actual written text 315 00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:36,880 given to them interesting and the first 316 00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:41,020 yeah and so the first group gave the 317 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:44,560 following the following percentages and 318 00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:45,610 we asked them to read it a hundred 319 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:49,120 percent absolutely accurate 0% nothing 320 00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:50,590 yeah and the percentages were such 321 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:52,600 eighty percent thirty percent fifty 322 00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:56,170 percent zero percent in 25 now the 323 00:13:59,820 --> 00:13:58,000 person who put zero said that she knew 324 00:14:01,710 --> 00:13:59,830 would Barnum effect is and she kept 325 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:01,720 laughing when she was reading her text 326 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:05,680 and so yes and it is possible that she 327 00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:07,330 told it to the rest of the group because 328 00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:10,720 they seemed informed oh but and so yeah 329 00:14:15,329 --> 00:14:12,820 but at the other hand there was one girl 330 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:15,339 that put eighty percent and in the end 331 00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:17,710 she said yes but this is actually right 332 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:20,020 about my profession here it's like about 333 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:22,600 my job and and I thought and later on 334 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,250 when they you know when they left I said 335 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:26,560 remember that girl that was the Barnum 336 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:28,930 effect that was the Barnum effect in 337 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:31,150 action and and if we had more people 338 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:35,050 like her so I think one person bought it 339 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:38,110 I'm on with the group yeah I and then we 340 00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:39,910 had a second group two people from that 341 00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:40,630 group you 342 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:44,500 Barnum effect was in the beginning there 343 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:46,690 were two people who did not know about 344 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:48,850 the Barnum effect but one of them said 345 00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:50,710 that they believed the text was too 346 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:54,220 abstract so so she noticed its abstract 347 00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:58,930 the other guy put ninety percent so but 348 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:01,120 the second group was that oh the girl 349 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:03,340 who said that the taxes too abstract was 350 00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:05,290 the first month ago the first one to 351 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:10,390 give a her opinion yeah and and so I 352 00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:11,770 believe that that could have affected 353 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:14,860 how other people view the results and so 354 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:17,230 that showed to us that it's very 355 00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:19,690 difficult to reproduce experiments that 356 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:22,060 there are many subtle details that you 357 00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:24,730 have to be aware of for example should 358 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:27,040 they give their responses in private or 359 00:15:31,770 --> 00:15:30,160 out loud Randy did it out loud some 360 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:31,780 people do it in private like you have to 361 00:15:36,390 --> 00:15:34,210 write it down and they read it some 362 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:36,400 people given a reuse like Darren browned 363 00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:38,230 and there are many other ways to do this 364 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:41,260 experiment so this is a decision but 365 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:43,450 there was another very interesting thing 366 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:45,460 and later on when I did research I found 367 00:15:52,140 --> 00:15:47,830 that we were obviously not the first one 368 00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:52,150 wants to come up with this so one of our 369 00:15:57,810 --> 00:15:54,910 skeptic skeptics who were core regularly 370 00:16:00,060 --> 00:15:57,820 on the meanings as this so during the 371 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:00,070 experiment we're asking the participants 372 00:16:06,810 --> 00:16:02,490 to rate the accuracy of the description 373 00:16:08,190 --> 00:16:06,820 but when we asked that how do you know 374 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:08,200 that they're giving us eighty percent 375 00:16:13,710 --> 00:16:10,690 that they mean that the accuracy only 376 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:13,720 towards them and not accuracy in general 377 00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:16,480 as well so if we try to differentiate 378 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:18,760 these things then we are sort of giving 379 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:21,970 the trick away and if we're not then how 380 00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:23,380 do we know that this is what they mean 381 00:16:28,650 --> 00:16:25,150 well you raised some very interesting 382 00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:28,660 points there about testing claims in 383 00:16:33,330 --> 00:16:31,120 general when trying to recreate test so 384 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:33,340 come up with new tests and I've 385 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:34,510 certainly learned this from experience 386 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:36,250 at the Australian skeptics and with the 387 00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:38,110 James Randi Educational Foundation as 388 00:16:44,190 --> 00:16:40,300 I'm on the the million dollar challenge 389 00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:44,200 community there it's not easy it is not 390 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:48,760 easy is it yeah and we had we had also 391 00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:51,010 people come to us and say okay so we 392 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:52,880 have a psychic that we know 393 00:16:58,330 --> 00:16:56,570 and say she moves objects on on the 394 00:17:01,000 --> 00:16:58,340 water so you know like you have a plate 395 00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:01,010 of water and then they put some very 396 00:17:05,710 --> 00:17:03,980 light object there and then the cycle 397 00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:05,720 concentrates and the object moves 398 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:07,940 towards the edge of the plate so this is 399 00:17:12,189 --> 00:17:10,550 what typically happens right and and so 400 00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:12,199 they say we want to repeat the 401 00:17:16,990 --> 00:17:14,390 experiment but with proper controls and 402 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,000 you start to you know to think of the 403 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:19,760 correct protocol and it's not easy it's 404 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:23,180 not easy at all because then you realize 405 00:17:27,670 --> 00:17:25,250 how many variables you have to exclude 406 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:27,680 you realize how difficult it is to 407 00:17:34,330 --> 00:17:31,310 formalize the experience at all and very 408 00:17:37,570 --> 00:17:34,340 often you realize that about eighty 409 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:37,580 percent of those claims are not even 410 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:39,650 impressive because of that because 411 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:44,210 they're simply not formalized like what 412 00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:46,490 exactly does she do does she move the 413 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:47,990 object on the water and they can't 414 00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:49,370 answer that question they can't answer 415 00:17:53,230 --> 00:17:52,040 what the expected result is well that's 416 00:17:55,630 --> 00:17:53,240 very interesting you should say that 417 00:17:57,370 --> 00:17:55,640 because for the Australian skeptics at 418 00:18:00,400 --> 00:17:57,380 least we have three questions we ask 419 00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:00,410 people when they're applying the first 420 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:04,670 question is can you tell us clearly and 421 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:08,510 simply what your claim is and a lot of 422 00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,510 people can't do that they cannot tell us 423 00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:13,280 what they're cleaning and the next 424 00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:17,120 question is to what degree of accuracy 425 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:19,040 do you expect when you do your claim 426 00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:20,690 again a lot of people can't answer that 427 00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:23,440 question either then so a lot of times 428 00:18:30,550 --> 00:18:28,640 we don't test people and some leads some 429 00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:30,560 people to say to us well why don't you 430 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:32,270 skeptics test this person or that person 431 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:35,650 and all we can say is well we can try 432 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:38,690 but often we can't even get the first 433 00:18:44,650 --> 00:18:42,950 the first base with them yeah I think 434 00:18:47,650 --> 00:18:44,660 that many of them don't even understand 435 00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:47,660 the problem like here I can do this but 436 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:49,700 what is it what is the expected result 437 00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:51,670 for example if you're showing us 438 00:18:58,930 --> 00:18:56,240 telekinesis are you argue what are you 439 00:19:00,910 --> 00:18:58,940 dragging the object towards you or what 440 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:00,920 or if we put several objects what will 441 00:19:04,130 --> 00:19:02,090 happen and they can't answer the 442 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:04,140 question okay what are we testing 443 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:06,210 and they can't answer this they're like 444 00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:08,970 come on you're you're you're trying to 445 00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:13,200 be too formal no but it's very difficult 446 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:17,280 to explain and we were contacted by a 447 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:19,410 person who says that he is a physicist 448 00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:23,580 and I'm like right so you're a physicist 449 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:24,870 and you don't know what a control 450 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:27,330 experiment is well I think that it's 451 00:19:31,340 --> 00:19:29,070 possible you can't be a physicist and 452 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:31,350 not really think about it much because 453 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:34,290 there are certainly spheres of physics 454 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:37,650 where you know they probably I mean a 455 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:40,620 lot of scientists do not have to be 456 00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:43,650 active skeptics to do their experiments 457 00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:46,200 because they have these rules embedded 458 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,880 in their profession this is how things 459 00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:50,400 are done yeah but why things are done 460 00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:54,000 that way not all of them can answer it's 461 00:19:58,960 --> 00:19:55,500 you again you bring up a very 462 00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:58,970 interesting point and I'm surprised when 463 00:20:03,910 --> 00:20:01,200 people who regard themselves as 464 00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:03,920 scientists or work in scientific fields 465 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:06,270 seem to lack a certain basic 466 00:20:12,410 --> 00:20:09,410 understanding of the scientific method I 467 00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:12,420 always find that amusing and surprising 468 00:20:17,030 --> 00:20:13,740 and a little disappointing at the same 469 00:20:18,620 --> 00:20:17,040 time but it's it's interesting to find 470 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:18,630 out that you have exactly the same 471 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:20,370 problems all the way over there in 472 00:20:24,290 --> 00:20:22,170 Russia that we have in Australia and 473 00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:24,300 we've seen in the United States and 474 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:27,960 other countries it's it's universal yeah 475 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:29,850 yeah I guess it's because we all have 476 00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:32,610 brains that's the boy that's the 477 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:37,200 denominator so yeah so I think that our 478 00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:39,690 brains think in a very similar way all 479 00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:43,080 of us and and it's stuff it's 480 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:45,300 interesting though it's very because I 481 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:48,090 mean that meeting where we did the 482 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:50,610 Barnum effect it felt really special 483 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:52,770 because we actually tried to do this and 484 00:20:57,770 --> 00:20:55,890 people were talking about it and you 485 00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:57,780 know we prepared all the stuff we made 486 00:21:02,570 --> 00:21:00,840 the envelopes we had the text we had the 487 00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:02,580 procedure and also you know the 488 00:21:05,660 --> 00:21:03,750 important thing about Barnum effect 489 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:05,670 experiment by the way was to be very 490 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:08,610 serious about it yeah like to to convey 491 00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:12,090 the you know a seriousness dedication 492 00:21:15,620 --> 00:21:13,830 that this is not a joke that this is you 493 00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:15,630 know as I was very formal like okay 494 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:17,260 please everybody sit down 495 00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:19,330 please open your envelopes you know that 496 00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:21,310 kind of stuff and it felt as if it was 497 00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:23,590 very serious it like real experiment I 498 00:21:29,340 --> 00:21:25,780 think that's absolutely the right 499 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:29,350 attitude to have you should be serious 500 00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:32,050 about it if you're doing a serious test 501 00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:33,460 me really looking for something that's 502 00:21:40,170 --> 00:21:36,340 the right way to do it the other way to 503 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:40,180 do it which we did in the pub and which 504 00:21:44,460 --> 00:21:41,710 is coming up a bit later on in this 505 00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:44,470 episode of the skeptic zone was not to 506 00:21:49,380 --> 00:21:46,240 have a formal test but to have a test 507 00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,390 more for interest for people to see that 508 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:51,280 we do test things and have a bit of a 509 00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:53,710 laugh and have some fun and then we all 510 00:21:59,760 --> 00:21:57,190 had a good time and that informal test 511 00:22:02,700 --> 00:21:59,770 will make a small part of the larger 512 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:02,710 more rigorous formal test where we will 513 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:03,970 be very serious and make sure 514 00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:06,250 everything's done absolutely correctly 515 00:22:12,750 --> 00:22:08,920 but I really enjoy it I really enjoy 516 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:12,760 testing water diviners I enjoy listening 517 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,970 to psychics when they're trying to talk 518 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:17,440 with the dead and analyzing what they're 519 00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:19,450 doing I I think it's one of the more 520 00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:23,020 interesting aspects of what we do yeah 521 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:25,480 yeah I agree I and I wish that we would 522 00:22:31,530 --> 00:22:27,670 have more people coming in to you know 523 00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:31,540 to test but so far it has been but it's 524 00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:33,820 I mean it doesn't happen in a day anyway 525 00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:37,120 so when we become unknown than probably 526 00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:39,340 this is what's going to happen it may 527 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:41,470 well do although I'd probably have to 528 00:22:44,850 --> 00:22:43,690 tell you that from my experience with 529 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:44,860 the skeptics in the James Randi 530 00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:47,770 Educational Foundation it's surprising 531 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:51,460 how many people won't come and put their 532 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:53,050 name forward to be tested they just 533 00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:55,570 won't do it even though there's lots of 534 00:23:01,760 --> 00:22:59,290 money as a prize a lot of people simply 535 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:01,770 won't do it or again a lot of people 536 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:04,720 can't tell us exactly what their claim 537 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:07,510 is anyway so it doesn't go very far but 538 00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:09,910 every now and then we do get some people 539 00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:13,240 I do do you have anybody seriously in in 540 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:19,840 in Russia who might be tested well like 541 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:21,730 I said last time things haven't changed 542 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:23,710 the internet and stuff like that we 543 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:26,200 don't have big names anymore and I think 544 00:23:34,580 --> 00:23:30,850 that it is it becomes true 44 / world 545 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:34,590 that big names are slowly going down 546 00:23:38,820 --> 00:23:37,450 whereas we have many local but we have 547 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:38,830 many local people who are for example 548 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:41,530 eating prana do you know the product 549 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:44,200 eaters people who claim that they're not 550 00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:48,010 eating actual food and right so they're 551 00:23:55,050 --> 00:23:52,630 being prana and prana is is is very cool 552 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:55,060 it's very cool it's very tasty these 553 00:24:03,240 --> 00:23:58,090 people usually usually look pretty 554 00:24:05,550 --> 00:24:03,250 weighty can I say that and so they must 555 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:05,560 be getting this from somewhere but they 556 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:07,420 claim this is product but the difficulty 557 00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:10,290 here of course is that whenever you are 558 00:24:14,910 --> 00:24:12,790 testing something medical especially 559 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:14,920 when you're putting a person at risk is 560 00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:19,170 very difficult from a legal standpoint 561 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:22,030 we have number of people you are 562 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:24,250 absolutely right and it's one of the 563 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:26,170 occasions where we probably wouldn't 564 00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:28,450 really go very far with that because we 565 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:30,310 would be putting people at risk and in 566 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:32,890 fact many years ago and I think it's on 567 00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:36,100 YouTube the 60 minutes program here in 568 00:24:40,530 --> 00:24:38,590 Australia one of their reporters who was 569 00:24:42,540 --> 00:24:40,540 a good friend of the skeptics man by the 570 00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:42,550 name of Richard Carlton who sadly died 571 00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:45,430 some years ago he tested a breatharian 572 00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:48,040 which i think is probably the same sort 573 00:24:53,940 --> 00:24:50,830 of thing you're talking about where the 574 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:53,950 60 minutes program had her secured in a 575 00:24:58,410 --> 00:24:56,770 hotel room and monitored around the 576 00:25:00,270 --> 00:24:58,420 clock to make sure she wasn't eating and 577 00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:00,280 within a few days she became very ill 578 00:25:06,210 --> 00:25:03,880 because she wasn't eating and they had 579 00:25:08,910 --> 00:25:06,220 to stop the experiment well you know we 580 00:25:11,550 --> 00:25:08,920 were thinking about like a middle ground 581 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:11,560 there that ok so we we will let them 582 00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:14,890 stay hungry for like 2-3 days but then 583 00:25:19,950 --> 00:25:17,590 we make measurements like of their urine 584 00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:19,960 samples yeah and if they're not eating 585 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:22,420 then very quickly even within 24 hours 586 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:25,240 we can see that yeah in certain body 587 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:27,130 liquids and that will be fine we don't 588 00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:29,310 need to solve them to that yeah yeah yes 589 00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:31,540 that is one of the approaches but the 590 00:25:34,410 --> 00:25:32,000 difficulty 591 00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:34,420 here is that a person has to say yes to 592 00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:37,310 for their bodily fluids to be taken 593 00:25:42,550 --> 00:25:40,190 samples and so usually at this point 594 00:25:46,030 --> 00:25:42,560 they say oh no this is mine I can give 595 00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:46,040 it to you yeah and well and with the 596 00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:47,600 case of the one here in Australia a 597 00:25:52,270 --> 00:25:50,660 woman by the name of years mahim who won 598 00:25:56,190 --> 00:25:52,280 our bent spoon or what many years ago 599 00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:56,200 for these claims after a few days she 600 00:26:01,930 --> 00:25:59,210 said that the reasons he was getting ill 601 00:26:04,150 --> 00:26:01,940 was she was breathing in city air not 602 00:26:05,170 --> 00:26:04,160 clean country air so they took her to 603 00:26:06,430 --> 00:26:05,180 the country but it didn't make any 604 00:26:08,650 --> 00:26:06,440 difference of course but they always 605 00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:08,660 find an excuse kyriel they will always 606 00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:12,140 find an excuse yeah yeah but I guess 607 00:26:17,050 --> 00:26:15,020 that this is this is a point where you 608 00:26:18,850 --> 00:26:17,060 sort of hope that intelligent people 609 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:18,860 will see that this is the excuse and 610 00:26:23,380 --> 00:26:21,470 nothing else I think intelligent people 611 00:26:26,140 --> 00:26:23,390 will I think I think that absolutely 612 00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:26,150 happens well kill it's really good to 613 00:26:29,650 --> 00:26:28,100 catch up with you again and it's really 614 00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:29,660 good to know that you like we here in 615 00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:31,070 Australia and other skeptical groups 616 00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:33,800 around the world are out there doing the 617 00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:35,420 tests are out there getting people 618 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:37,940 interested in skepticism I think that's 619 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:40,250 so important how can people I mean they 620 00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:42,170 they hear it on the commercial of course 621 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:44,870 but how can people find out more about 622 00:26:52,150 --> 00:26:49,130 what you're doing right so our probably 623 00:26:54,730 --> 00:26:52,160 central hub is our website www skeptic 624 00:26:57,550 --> 00:26:54,740 society are you and we have the forum 625 00:26:58,900 --> 00:26:57,560 which is finally coming to life and more 626 00:27:02,350 --> 00:26:58,910 people are actually hanging out in the 627 00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,360 forum and at vk.com the russian facebook 628 00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:04,720 social network this is where our 629 00:27:10,780 --> 00:27:08,240 activities are regarding social networks 630 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:10,790 we're not currently present Facebook so 631 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:13,100 this is probably it and we have meetings 632 00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:15,530 in like more than 10 cities right now 633 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:18,680 across Ukraine Kazakhstan as well so 634 00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:22,370 people can can do that and we have a 635 00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:25,070 meeting today actually and so we're 636 00:27:30,550 --> 00:27:26,950 going to be having some skeptical 637 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:30,560 discussions today that's very exciting i 638 00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:33,050 am so pleased to hear that it's always 639 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:35,750 good to know if of active people no 640 00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:38,970 matter where they are in the world 641 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,350 spreading the message of skepticism 642 00:27:45,539 --> 00:27:43,360 which is basically the message of of 643 00:27:47,850 --> 00:27:45,549 science and the scientific approach and 644 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:47,860 how it's progressing our society well 645 00:27:52,650 --> 00:27:49,570 Carol all the best good luck to you 646 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:52,660 again and as I think I probably said 647 00:27:58,500 --> 00:27:55,030 last time who knows one day I might be 648 00:28:16,890 --> 00:27:58,510 able to visit you in Moscow yay thanks 649 00:28:19,409 --> 00:28:16,900 thank you Richard plus 3 30 minutes ago 650 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:19,419 fear of Islamic law be so skeptical most 651 00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,710 of you must know not just a jutro 652 00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:22,480 prohodit car that we need ye lumis clear 653 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:24,190 it algebra class camp associate nash 654 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:26,350 podcast Petrova hooded garden engine but 655 00:28:30,570 --> 00:28:28,450 customs White's escaped aside a petrol 656 00:28:34,730 --> 00:28:30,580 bomb or choose not initiated st at a 657 00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:34,740 wave over skeptics society to screw 658 00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:37,120 everybody my name is carol and i'm the 659 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:39,220 founder of skeptics society russia come 660 00:28:42,780 --> 00:28:40,570 visit us in moscow and our bi-weekly 661 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:42,790 meetings and also listen to our weekly 662 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:44,890 podcast which is called skeptic and the 663 00:28:59,290 --> 00:28:46,540 site where you can find all that the 664 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:01,730 welcome to a week in science from our 665 00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:04,050 iOS bringing you the science you need to 666 00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:06,660 know should space via women's world 667 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:08,940 female astronauts might just have the 668 00:29:12,770 --> 00:29:10,650 edge when it comes to long-haul space 669 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:12,780 exploration and travel so stick around 670 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:14,970 to find out if ladies who lunch should 671 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:25,440 become ladies who launch if you want to 672 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:27,330 be first in line for a ticket to mars it 673 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:29,310 might help to be female as it's been 674 00:29:33,050 --> 00:29:31,410 suggested these long haul trips be 675 00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,060 exclusively helmed by the so-called 676 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:36,480 verra sex why well part of it has to do 677 00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:39,120 with physiology early research indicated 678 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:41,100 that women have stronger hearts and can 679 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:43,410 therefore better handle low oxygen low 680 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:45,330 gravity environments and can also 681 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,010 withstand greater vibrations and 682 00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:49,440 radiation psychologically women might 683 00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:51,300 also cope a little better with some 684 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:52,620 research suggesting they're less 685 00:29:56,780 --> 00:29:54,570 affected by isolation and a lack of 686 00:29:58,670 --> 00:29:56,790 sensory input women are also said to 687 00:30:00,830 --> 00:29:58,680 increase cohesion and team work within 688 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:00,840 the tight-knit teams necessary for space 689 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:05,190 exploration but there's one specific 690 00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:07,530 area where sending them into space makes 691 00:30:12,770 --> 00:30:10,260 a lot of sense dolazim sense that is 692 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:12,780 that's right when it comes to economics 693 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:14,970 ladies are a whole lot lighter on the 694 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:17,610 hip pocket on a Mars mission simulation 695 00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:19,890 in Hawaii females were found to expend 696 00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:21,720 less than half the calories than their 697 00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:23,700 male counterparts for the same exercises 698 00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:26,340 and tasks therefore needing half the 699 00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:28,740 amount of food as the difference in size 700 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:30,390 between the guys and girls gets greater 701 00:30:34,670 --> 00:30:32,730 sort of the savings by the time you 702 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:34,680 compare a small woman to a large man 703 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:36,330 they require less than half the 704 00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:39,090 resources the other benefit this creates 705 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:40,470 is that less food onboard a spacecraft 706 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:43,050 means less weight and therefore less 707 00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:46,170 fuel and now let's blast off into for 708 00:30:55,749 --> 00:30:53,350 the first woman in space was valentina 709 00:30:59,999 --> 00:30:55,759 tereshkova who flew from the Soviet 710 00:31:03,009 --> 00:31:00,009 Union in 1963 at the tender age of 26 711 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:03,019 tereshkova orbited the earth 48 x over 712 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:05,980 three days a record at the time out of 713 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:09,529 536 total space travelers 59 have been 714 00:31:14,409 --> 00:31:12,110 women a mere eleven percent american 715 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:14,419 astronaut and overachiever Sunita 716 00:31:19,779 --> 00:31:16,490 Williams holds the female records for 717 00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:19,789 longest space flight 195 days most 718 00:31:25,810 --> 00:31:22,399 spacewalk time 50 hours and 40 minutes 719 00:31:28,299 --> 00:31:25,820 and most spacewalks having exited the 720 00:31:30,669 --> 00:31:28,309 hatch seven times that's it for this 721 00:31:33,340 --> 00:31:30,679 week in science for more information on 722 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:33,350 ladies in space go to the rirs website 723 00:31:40,810 --> 00:31:38,090 RI aus org a you follow us on twitter at 724 00:31:43,149 --> 00:31:40,820 our iOS and like us on Facebook I'm 725 00:32:01,450 --> 00:31:43,159 Casey Harrigan and we'll catch you next 726 00:32:04,930 --> 00:32:01,460 week hey Heidi oh hi Joe hi Heidi oh hi 727 00:32:08,169 --> 00:32:04,940 Maynard hi Maynard oh hi Joe nice day in 728 00:32:12,009 --> 00:32:08,179 this park yeah yes great weather oh look 729 00:32:14,590 --> 00:32:12,019 a unicorn a unicorn there are no such 730 00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:14,600 things as unicorns silly yes there are 731 00:32:20,289 --> 00:32:17,809 no there isn't Hey ladies what are you 732 00:32:23,739 --> 00:32:20,299 arguing about Joe thinks unicorns are 733 00:32:27,249 --> 00:32:23,749 real they so are let's look this up in 734 00:32:29,529 --> 00:32:27,259 the skeptics dictionary the word how can 735 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:29,539 we do that in this park there are no 736 00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:31,850 computers here you ladies probably don't 737 00:32:37,239 --> 00:32:34,159 know about the skeptics dictionary app 738 00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,249 available now for iPhone iPad and iPod 739 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:40,399 touch in the app store yeah we do we've 740 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:42,350 been listening to the skeptic zone for 741 00:32:48,879 --> 00:32:46,700 years you know yes ok the app lets you 742 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:48,889 access all the great skeptics dictionary 743 00:32:55,450 --> 00:32:52,610 articles when you're on the go yeah let 744 00:32:58,359 --> 00:32:55,460 me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi 745 00:33:00,850 --> 00:32:58,369 prepare to be proven wrong it says here 746 00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:00,860 the Unicorn is a creature from fables 747 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:03,820 aha actually I see now that 748 00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:05,350 someone just dumped their ice cream cone 749 00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:08,440 on that horse's head thanks dictionnaire 750 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:10,750 iphone that's just some guy in these 751 00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:23,170 undies recently Australian skeptics came 752 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:26,140 into possession of a premium wine card 753 00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:28,330 if you don't know what the premium wine 754 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:30,070 cut is I recommend you go to the website 755 00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:33,010 of premium wine card just Google premium 756 00:33:41,610 --> 00:33:36,880 wine card or wine card this is a credit 757 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:41,620 card sized card made out of metal very 758 00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:46,330 light metal which claims the claims are 759 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:49,300 that if you rub this card against a wine 760 00:33:56,670 --> 00:33:52,810 glass it will make the wine inside the 761 00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:56,680 wine glass taste better you can turn 762 00:34:01,230 --> 00:33:58,570 standard wine on all the wine into 763 00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:01,240 premiun white so the claim is needless 764 00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:05,200 to say that we were still a skeptical of 765 00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,800 this amazing claim so the other night at 766 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:10,960 sydney skeptics in the pub we had a lot 767 00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:15,250 of fun we had lots of glasses of wine 768 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:19,150 lined up and we had two cards one was 769 00:34:24,660 --> 00:34:21,130 the premium wine card another was a 770 00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:24,670 dummy or placebo card exactly the same 771 00:34:30,810 --> 00:34:27,700 ma size and weight both cards were 772 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:30,820 wrapped up in paper nobody knew which 773 00:34:37,830 --> 00:34:34,210 was which they were labeled X and Y and 774 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:37,840 the toss of a coin decided which of the 775 00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:40,210 two glasses our volunteers would try 776 00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:43,270 first anyway let me take you now to 777 00:34:53,470 --> 00:34:46,150 Sydney skeptics in the pub and we can 778 00:34:57,890 --> 00:34:56,150 so we're here it's Sydney skeptics in 779 00:34:59,450 --> 00:34:57,900 the bottom tonight we're doing a well a 780 00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:59,460 more or less an informal test of the 781 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:01,500 wine car the premium wine card and I've 782 00:35:06,970 --> 00:35:03,770 got cigna came here with me from the 783 00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:06,980 Australian settings such dicks 784 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:10,260 Australian skeptics have a committee 785 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:14,130 here in our city cigna what what's your 786 00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:16,590 opinion should the skeptics keep testing 787 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:20,040 these devices I mean we're skeptical 788 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:22,410 very I mean I really have to emphasize 789 00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,330 that we're very skeptical of this device 790 00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:26,640 do you think it's still something we 791 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:28,200 should be doing is testing all these 792 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:30,030 things yeah i think so i think it's 793 00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,610 firstly it's fun it's an entertaining 794 00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,760 way to teach people something about 795 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:37,920 science and about how science works and 796 00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:40,530 about how people should approach these 797 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:42,420 things for example i was just being told 798 00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:45,330 that somebody at home has their relative 799 00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,600 at home has a magnetic wine decanter or 800 00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:50,400 something when you look down the bottle 801 00:35:54,140 --> 00:35:52,350 yeah and then they swear that their 802 00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:54,150 wines has so much better offset 15 803 00:35:58,010 --> 00:35:56,310 minutes and because there they don't 804 00:35:59,570 --> 00:35:58,020 think about these things in a scientific 805 00:36:01,640 --> 00:35:59,580 way so they don't think well I could 806 00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:01,650 actually test this out home I could I 807 00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:03,750 could get two bowls of wine or I could 808 00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:06,150 get someone else to try to they just put 809 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:07,440 it down they believe the marketing 810 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:09,750 claims so skeptics doing this test even 811 00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:11,250 if it's just informally mittens just for 812 00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,510 a bit of fun and everyone here knows 813 00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:14,880 that it's probably not as controlled as 814 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:17,460 it could be yeah we're still I'm pretty 815 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:19,130 sure we're still teaching people 816 00:36:23,690 --> 00:36:21,240 something about it so I think it's 817 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:23,700 valuable and I think and it's also fun 818 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:25,890 and all such as fun together and do it I 819 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:27,270 think you're absolutely right it's a 820 00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:28,770 nice social opportunity and people are 821 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:30,740 very interested and they call and 822 00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:32,970 everybody here who wants to be gets to 823 00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:36,240 be part of the broader tears to the wine 824 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:37,830 card and I think that that's it yeah 825 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:40,170 it's a good thing yeah i agree so i 826 00:36:45,930 --> 00:36:43,000 think it's good to test things 827 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:45,940 just get together learn something have a 828 00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:48,670 bit of fun a bit of wine in this case 829 00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:51,190 yeah or you know whatever else it is and 830 00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:53,620 then next time when you're confronted 831 00:36:57,090 --> 00:36:55,660 with a claim like this oh you know try 832 00:36:59,280 --> 00:36:57,100 this is going to be so into bad at you 833 00:37:01,080 --> 00:36:59,290 you know so the principles behind it 834 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:01,090 that might be influencing you and you're 835 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:03,970 just a tiny bit smarter and maybe less 836 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:05,590 gullible to all these people who just 837 00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:08,290 try to sell you crap maybe Thanks 838 00:37:15,330 --> 00:37:13,360 dignity Horace Andy and wine card is 839 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:15,340 being tested as we speak I just come 840 00:37:19,350 --> 00:37:18,130 around the back here I'm with Jessica 841 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:19,360 singer from the Australian skeptics 842 00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,010 Jessica we're testing the wine card 843 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:23,440 informally here in the public indeed and 844 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:26,370 i am recording the results with much 845 00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,930 conscientiousness and accuracy now we 846 00:37:33,810 --> 00:37:30,880 don't know which card is which a little 847 00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:33,820 envelopes there and now i did the person 848 00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:36,760 who did it is a non drinker I'm not 849 00:37:41,490 --> 00:37:39,670 drink any there's a toss-up going to 850 00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:41,500 help the randomization now Amy's just 851 00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:45,480 tasting it now first class Oh 852 00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,700 interesting expression on the face 853 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:50,560 ecstasy oh she seems to like that one 854 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:53,140 not in yet now the second glass which 855 00:38:00,960 --> 00:37:54,850 may or may not be treated with the wine 856 00:38:03,380 --> 00:38:00,970 card here we go she's thinking the first 857 00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:03,390 one she's going for the first one well 858 00:38:10,530 --> 00:38:08,440 yes finish them off its that's right 859 00:38:17,319 --> 00:38:10,540 nobody goes thirsty an artist that's 860 00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:23,979 so how many trials have we had so far 10 861 00:38:29,949 --> 00:38:27,950 to 10 12 and 11 the brief glances I 862 00:38:32,529 --> 00:38:29,959 can't see any particular pattern of be 863 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:32,539 rendered down we'll see how it goes and 864 00:38:36,609 --> 00:38:34,249 then after about 20 trials will see 865 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:36,619 which card is the wine card which card 866 00:38:41,049 --> 00:38:39,410 is that the dummy the fake one yeah now 867 00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:41,059 the next trial is on the way and they're 868 00:38:46,809 --> 00:38:44,150 running the two cards one is a placebo 869 00:38:49,299 --> 00:38:46,819 and one is an item one has to gently 870 00:38:51,069 --> 00:38:49,309 caress the card against the glass it's 871 00:38:55,150 --> 00:38:51,079 obviously all in the wrist action don't 872 00:38:57,759 --> 00:38:55,160 you think Richard one could say that 873 00:39:01,209 --> 00:38:57,769 about many things Jessica verse 11 could 874 00:39:04,029 --> 00:39:01,219 be in bryces is using one car there and 875 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:04,039 Gary our volunteer at the moments using 876 00:39:06,999 --> 00:39:05,089 the other one on the wine that's about 877 00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:07,009 15 seconds I think gentlemen as 878 00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:09,400 specified by the water filtration 879 00:39:15,579 --> 00:39:13,069 situation it's not so keen pressing 880 00:39:19,979 --> 00:39:15,589 tossing the coin and its various 881 00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:19,989 everybody okay X the signal Gary's 882 00:39:28,209 --> 00:39:25,039 sampling the window like one it smells 883 00:39:33,459 --> 00:39:28,219 like wine it's a good sign it tasting it 884 00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:33,469 now tasting it again to be sure seems 885 00:39:40,569 --> 00:39:35,089 rather undecided now he's trying the 886 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:40,579 second one second glass treated with or 887 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:42,140 without the wine card we don't know but 888 00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:45,680 I get the impression that the second one 889 00:39:52,569 --> 00:39:50,089 doesn't smell as as much as fruity as 890 00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:52,579 whiney as the first one interesting okay 891 00:39:59,439 --> 00:39:55,190 all right and he's trying the second one 892 00:40:04,199 --> 00:39:59,449 now I think I can honestly say that this 893 00:40:06,339 --> 00:40:04,209 one the second glass tastes bland off 894 00:40:08,769 --> 00:40:06,349 interesting so you're going to go for 895 00:40:10,779 --> 00:40:08,779 the first one which is X to the stuff my 896 00:40:12,939 --> 00:40:10,789 personal preference would be for the one 897 00:40:16,849 --> 00:40:12,949 without with the less sort of spicy 898 00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,859 bites interesting so that so that 899 00:40:20,779 --> 00:40:18,960 so that for me the second one is better 900 00:40:23,150 --> 00:40:20,789 are the second one is better all right 901 00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:23,160 another test under way what's the your 902 00:40:34,089 --> 00:40:27,630 answer they're very fine x all very fine 903 00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:34,099 exits away how many have we got now just 904 00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:41,430 give Israel of God 515 wise with four 905 00:40:48,019 --> 00:40:44,700 aces 3 equals 0 so that totals exert 906 00:40:49,759 --> 00:40:48,029 that top so we've done 12 tests so far 907 00:40:51,319 --> 00:40:49,769 there's not much there's not much of 908 00:40:52,759 --> 00:40:51,329 Manhattan emerging I must say there's no 909 00:40:56,509 --> 00:40:52,769 strong favoring one on the other we've 910 00:40:58,039 --> 00:40:56,519 got people lined up to try it so signal 911 00:40:59,809 --> 00:40:58,049 we were just discussing earlier that 912 00:41:01,759 --> 00:40:59,819 these tests are good fun and this is 913 00:41:03,769 --> 00:41:01,769 good fun people are lining up there 914 00:41:05,989 --> 00:41:03,779 rubbing their wine with their cards 915 00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,999 they're tasting each one they're making 916 00:41:12,019 --> 00:41:07,920 funny expressions on their faces it up 917 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:12,029 there goes a toss of the coin again so I 918 00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:14,130 think it's a really worthwhile exercise 919 00:41:20,359 --> 00:41:17,220 I think so too particularly if you get a 920 00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:20,369 takeaway message that next time you see 921 00:41:24,019 --> 00:41:21,900 something like this you might just 922 00:41:25,609 --> 00:41:24,029 thoughts and think about it a bit past 923 00:41:27,529 --> 00:41:25,619 capital e I think that's really the most 924 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:27,539 important aspect of doing this because 925 00:41:32,089 --> 00:41:30,210 if we were thinking about the protocol 926 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:32,099 here there's probably a lot of things 927 00:41:36,289 --> 00:41:34,650 that we won't work it's quite like it's 928 00:41:39,319 --> 00:41:36,299 quite yet for example we don't even have 929 00:41:41,779 --> 00:41:39,329 control yeah the dirt that has not been 930 00:41:43,309 --> 00:41:41,789 robbed but that's so good fun and also 931 00:41:48,049 --> 00:41:43,319 if everyone had to drink from three 932 00:41:50,029 --> 00:41:48,059 glasses we'd all be stumbling at a good 933 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:50,039 thing is the claim is this card also 934 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:51,930 works on water so maybe we can try it 935 00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:54,450 out another time oh yeah yeah we're just 936 00:42:05,899 --> 00:42:02,029 getting down to the business and the 937 00:42:07,819 --> 00:42:05,909 coin is tossed again Australia the coin 938 00:42:08,929 --> 00:42:07,829 has a kangaroo on one side and Australia 939 00:42:10,579 --> 00:42:08,939 on the other that's why we're saying 940 00:42:11,509 --> 00:42:10,589 these strange things another taste going 941 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:11,519 under way what do you think of your 942 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:16,079 first selection there as I'd wine tastes 943 00:42:19,219 --> 00:42:17,729 like wine that's a that's the answer 944 00:42:24,099 --> 00:42:19,229 we've been getting a lot lately tonight 945 00:42:28,279 --> 00:42:24,109 I think skeptics nothing if not 946 00:42:31,689 --> 00:42:28,289 insightful accurate sharp as needles we 947 00:42:35,229 --> 00:42:31,699 are oh yeah he can't make up his mind 948 00:42:40,849 --> 00:42:35,239 identical identical yes good answer yes 949 00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:40,859 valid answer thank you now how very own 950 00:42:50,059 --> 00:42:46,079 Jessica singer it's going to try so both 951 00:42:52,729 --> 00:42:50,069 glasses are being rubbed with the cards 952 00:42:55,449 --> 00:42:52,739 one is a placebo carden one is the real 953 00:42:59,289 --> 00:42:55,459 wine card we don't know which is which 954 00:43:04,509 --> 00:42:59,299 they're rubbing them for 15 seconds 955 00:43:10,699 --> 00:43:09,379 kangaroo so she tastes glass wine what 956 00:43:14,959 --> 00:43:10,709 do you think of the first one Jessica 957 00:43:16,999 --> 00:43:14,969 its wine there you go the was skeptical 958 00:43:22,669 --> 00:43:17,009 answer now she's going to try the second 959 00:43:27,089 --> 00:43:22,679 one it's amazing it it's not scotch know 960 00:43:37,630 --> 00:43:31,839 and the second one equal all right we've 961 00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:37,640 got another eco school to the kangaroo 962 00:43:46,299 --> 00:43:44,270 sing stuff definitely Wow oh my god what 963 00:43:48,970 --> 00:43:46,309 do you think you can is there a 964 00:43:51,690 --> 00:43:48,980 difference moderate Rick you know if I 965 00:43:58,779 --> 00:43:51,700 heard of a difference easy to clean up 966 00:44:00,160 --> 00:43:58,789 it's more 0 x x marks the spot well not 967 00:44:02,589 --> 00:44:00,170 long to go we've only got a couple more 968 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:02,599 people to go through the tests before we 969 00:44:06,910 --> 00:44:04,730 reveal which card is the placebo and 970 00:44:09,279 --> 00:44:06,920 which is the wine card and just to 971 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:09,289 remind ourselves tonight is all about 972 00:44:14,740 --> 00:44:12,650 fun it's showing people that skeptics 973 00:44:16,839 --> 00:44:14,750 like to have fun everybody's here is 974 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:16,849 enjoying the evening we'll get some 975 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:18,410 results and will include them in any 976 00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:20,170 report but there's strictly 977 00:44:26,740 --> 00:44:23,150 non-scientific and just part of the 978 00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:26,750 overall enjoyment of being a skeptic and 979 00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,839 testing things and the final test of the 980 00:44:37,059 --> 00:44:32,240 evenings coming up and this time we're 981 00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:37,069 using we're doing it water water as per 982 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:38,900 the claims on the website it does work 983 00:44:43,390 --> 00:44:41,690 with water so here we go ok which one a 984 00:44:48,339 --> 00:44:43,400 place like sending which one tastes like 985 00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:48,349 a delay it's a young Tom trying it with 986 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:49,670 the water and he just reported that 987 00:44:53,740 --> 00:44:52,250 rubbing the card on the the glass feels 988 00:44:57,810 --> 00:44:53,750 very silly 989 00:45:04,570 --> 00:45:01,840 times up hey wait to Whitney see which 990 00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:04,580 one you going to tangle food so that's 991 00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:15,560 Australia so we try that one this one's 992 00:45:28,690 --> 00:45:26,510 watered down ah but which water is the 993 00:45:35,590 --> 00:45:28,700 better tasting do you think this one or 994 00:45:38,050 --> 00:45:35,600 this one um not sure probably you can 995 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:38,060 say neither it's okay honey neither 996 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:42,770 could but there are people oh I told you 997 00:45:47,740 --> 00:45:46,130 this one tastes a bit watered out which 998 00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:47,750 one do you prefer yeah but which one 999 00:45:56,290 --> 00:45:51,920 should I was up to you that's okay to 1000 00:45:59,050 --> 00:45:56,300 you what I stop he's trying them both 1001 00:46:08,190 --> 00:45:59,060 together because it's an easy gillespie 1002 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:08,200 why why last one naughty wow that's 1003 00:46:19,330 --> 00:46:11,530 alright that's how 20 trials completed 1004 00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:19,340 and a scorekeeper jessica is just going 1005 00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:22,400 to quickly taught up the X's and Y's and 1006 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:25,760 the equals really coming up after the 1007 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:35,000 okay eggs the vote for x.x got seven 1008 00:46:46,810 --> 00:46:39,530 boats the xmas better why got six votes 1009 00:46:53,450 --> 00:46:51,290 Maury much now their army of the reveal 1010 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:53,460 we don't have the reveal ian is opening 1011 00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:55,110 hey buzz that this one's that and 1012 00:47:00,380 --> 00:46:57,780 doctors about Bobby in his opening 1013 00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:00,390 understand bet card number card litter 1014 00:47:11,060 --> 00:47:09,240 others have an X X is lime curd you like 1015 00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:11,070 to open that one or two they show quite 1016 00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:12,660 happy that's what and why was the 1017 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:17,400 placebo no hang on so the one card got 1018 00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:19,530 seven votes is getting the better result 1019 00:47:25,070 --> 00:47:22,380 and the placebo got six votes all the 1020 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:25,080 usual do we think that's within the 1021 00:47:31,730 --> 00:47:29,370 range of normal chance so that means 1022 00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:31,740 that on a bayesian basis we can say that 1023 00:47:38,450 --> 00:47:34,950 the results were entirely consistent 1024 00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:38,460 with chance and that is a failure to 1025 00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:49,430 well there you go not a good result for 1026 00:47:55,489 --> 00:47:52,529 the premium wine card now these informal 1027 00:47:57,620 --> 00:47:55,499 tests done really for fun we'll make the 1028 00:47:59,180 --> 00:47:57,630 small part of a much broader but more 1029 00:48:02,239 --> 00:47:59,190 rigorous test that we will be conducting 1030 00:48:04,759 --> 00:48:02,249 a little bit later this year on the 1031 00:48:06,739 --> 00:48:04,769 premium wine cup again if you want a 1032 00:48:09,229 --> 00:48:06,749 good laugh go to the premium wine card 1033 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:09,239 website and have a look at the videos 1034 00:48:14,539 --> 00:48:12,210 but maybe we've given you some ideas for 1035 00:48:17,529 --> 00:48:14,549 your own skeptics in the pub if you want 1036 00:48:31,279 --> 00:48:17,539 to hold informal test to test some 1037 00:48:33,380 --> 00:48:31,289 far-fetched claim our friends in 1038 00:48:36,229 --> 00:48:33,390 Canberra the Canberra skeptics want you 1039 00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:36,239 to know that this Wednesday night the 1040 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:39,900 11th of march from 6pm til 730 p.m. at 1041 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:42,450 the Aynsley football club you can enjoy 1042 00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:46,170 a free talk by dr. Vanessa beanland the 1043 00:48:54,410 --> 00:48:50,880 dark side of visual attention why do we 1044 00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,420 sometimes fail to notice the obvious 1045 00:48:58,789 --> 00:48:56,640 most people believe that what they see 1046 00:49:01,249 --> 00:48:58,799 is a faithful representation of what 1047 00:49:03,319 --> 00:49:01,259 actually exists in the world this notion 1048 00:49:05,509 --> 00:49:03,329 provides the rationale for giving 1049 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:05,519 credibility to eyewitness accounts and 1050 00:49:10,339 --> 00:49:08,130 using human observers as much guards 1051 00:49:14,569 --> 00:49:10,349 research into visual attention however 1052 00:49:17,870 --> 00:49:14,579 has revealed that consistently seeing is 1053 00:49:20,539 --> 00:49:17,880 more complex than simply looking dinner 1054 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:20,549 will follow the lecture by the way but 1055 00:49:28,759 --> 00:49:23,249 you need to RSVP for that look just head 1056 00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:28,769 for ww Canberra skeptics tau for more 1057 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:46,650 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1058 00:49:50,130 --> 00:49:48,130 zone coming up in the next week's we've 1059 00:49:52,020 --> 00:49:50,140 got some more from my July bastyr more 1060 00:49:54,030 --> 00:49:52,030 from Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic and 1061 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:54,040 maybe some more from you may not who 1062 00:49:57,720 --> 00:49:55,930 knows that's right in between I'm on 1063 00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:57,730 tour with Village People this i'm on 1064 00:50:01,170 --> 00:49:59,200 till wood village people so keep an eye 1065 00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,180 out for me in Wollongong and Penrith 1066 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:03,280 around you around new south wales this 1067 00:50:07,530 --> 00:50:05,650 week Wollongong and Penner what were the 1068 00:50:08,970 --> 00:50:07,540 dates for the EO Wollongong Friday night 1069 00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:08,980 of course Wollongong and said their 1070 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:10,720 night penrith see you there Village 1071 00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:12,850 People fans and remember it's not the 1072 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:14,860 village people there are collective noun 1073 00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:16,570 there from people from the Greenwich 1074 00:50:20,430 --> 00:50:18,640 Village so they're just village people 1075 00:50:23,610 --> 00:50:20,440 you learn something every day even if 1076 00:50:24,690 --> 00:50:23,620 you don't want to well that's good i 1077 00:50:27,180 --> 00:50:24,700 hope you have a good time with that 1078 00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:27,190 Maynard and once again everybody thanks 1079 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:28,390 for listening thanks for those people 1080 00:50:32,910 --> 00:50:30,130 who support the skeptic zone muchly 1081 00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:32,920 appreciated and until next week this is 1082 00:50:37,980 --> 00:50:36,310 Richard end Maynard saying it's not you 1083 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:37,990 can't stop the music the name of the 1084 00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:40,050 movie is just can't stop the music 1085 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:44,080 signing off from Sydney Australia I said 1086 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:50,650 young man you've been listening to the 1087 00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:53,170 skeptics own podcast visit our website 1088 00:51:00,300 --> 00:50:56,980 at wwc a petting zoo TV for contacts an 1089 00:51:03,450 --> 00:51:00,310 archive of all episodes since 2008 and 1090 00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:03,460 our online store please support the 1091 00:51:08,850 --> 00:51:05,500 skeptic zone by following us on twitter 1092 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:08,860 at skeptic zone liking us on facebook 1093 00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:12,370 and leaving a review on iTunes you can 1094 00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:13,900 also show your support by subscribing 1095 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:17,710 via paypal for as little as 99 cents a 1096 00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:20,770 week the skeptic zone is an independent 1097 00:51:24,810 --> 00:51:22,390 production the views and opinions 1098 00:51:26,910 --> 00:51:24,820 expressed on the skeptic zone and not